Gopi Krishna and Claes
Talk About The Purpose of Life
By Gopi Krishna
It is a privilege to be
here and to meet you in person. This is a particularly beautiful setting, with
the mountains and the wonderful lake in front of us. It must give a person much
inspiration to live in such beauty and solitude as this.
It is a strange
coincidence, be cause it is in this type of surroundings that the ancient sages
of India spoke to the seekers after truth. The entire philosophy of the
Upanishads is based on the teachings delivered by the sages, in hermitages
located on hills, on the banks of rivers, or on the banks of lakes where nature
bloomed in all its glory and beauty.
Solitude and nature are
absolutely necessary for the proper development of a human being.
It is an admixture
of natural life, lived in solitude, amid beautiful surroundings of nature and
what we call an arboreal life, which is absolutely necessary for the poise and
harmony of the human mind. Otherwise, it becomes too much distracted, and that
distraction is fatal for its evolution towards a higher dimension of
The blunder made by
us at present is to put the human mind in surroundings among machines, speeding
cars, and airplanes, which do not allow it to have that repose and calm
environment where it can grow in the right direction.
Could you tell me a
little about this particular area? I understand that you were born in Kashmir
and have been living here for most of your life.
I was born in a village
about 21 miles from Srinagar. This area is considered to be one of the most
beautiful and most productive in Kashmir. It is lavish with fruits and produces
an abundance of corn. It is said that some of the greatest philosophers that
Kashmir has produced have been residing in this area, such as Abhinava Gupta.
The spring which
supplies water to our buildings and garden, overlooking Dal Lake, is known as
the Gupta Tirth, the Hidden Spring, and it is said that some of those sages
lived here, close to the spring, and at other places on this slope.
And these mountains?
Are we in the Himalayas?
Yes, they are the
foothills of the Himalayas, and on the other side of this mountain a stream is
flowing which comes from a lake about 13,000 feet above sea level. It carries
the water to a place about six miles from here, where an artificial lake has
been built by the government. The lake supplies drinking water to the entire
city of Srinagar, about 10 miles away. It is very beautiful water, and this
valley, on the other side of the building, is a reserve where wild animals are
allowed to live.
I am very interested
in wild animals and have been working with various environmental and ecological
organizations to protect them. What kind of animals do you have in these
Jackals, wolves, and even
some variety of tiger. Also bears in large numbers, and they sometimes come into
I would like to say
that what particularly brought me here to visit with you is my very strong
concern over matters related to peace. Today it seems as if we are on the brink
of another world war. A third world war could confront mankind, and bring out
the most destructive weapons we have in our arsenals, the nuclear missiles.
Among many of the books you have written is The Shape of Events to Come, which I
carried with me from the States. It is a mind-boggling book, and I would like to
hear about it from you. What is the message you are trying to get out to the
In this book, I am in
particular trying to draw the attention of the world to a very important fact
that at the present moment our scientists, our educators, leaders, and
politicians are only aware of natural laws, and even those are not known
completely or perfectly. In addition to material laws, there are also spiritual
or psychic laws in the universe. We have absolutely no awareness of these laws.
Time and again, a glimpse of these laws has been given to mankind by the great
prophets and Messiahs who appeared in different parts of the world. We have
rejected their teachings as pure myth or superstition. But actually those
teachings contain germs of truth that are essential for the safety and survival
of the race.
The tragedy is that
we have rejected the evidence of religion or of the teachings of great sages
about the spiritual world and the soul which dwells in the human body. Since
spirit, mind or soul is not perceptible to any of our senses, or to any of our
scientific instruments, we presume that they have no independent existence apart
from the body or the organic organ, the brain, and therefore we need not worry
about what happens to them. But actually they do have an independent existence.
They have a universe of their own, and they have profound influences on all that
we do, on all that we think, on all that we create.
But this influence
is conditioned by certain laws which are totally a sealed book to us. These laws
are operating at present and driving mankind to a catastrophic war to end the
present order, which is against the evolution of the brain.
What laws are you
referring to now?
I am referring to the
first law, the Law of Evolution. This law of evolution has been referred to by
every prophet; by the founder of every great faith. They have not called it a
law. They called it a Path, a way, a road. Christ has called it a Path, Buddha
has called it a Path, Mohammed has called it a Path, the Bhagavad Gita calls it
a Path. All of them call it a Path, the road that can lead mankind to salvation
and beatitude. This Path is a law. This is what I am emphasizing with all the
force at my command. And I hope and pray that science and our intellectuals
would come to the same conclusion after conducting scientific experiments,
before the catastrophe occurs, rather than after.
When you say
catastrophe, to what are you referring?
Nature, we find, is
relentless in her programs and schedules. She is also relentless in enforcing
her laws. We know that the moment we digress from some of the biological laws
ruling our life, we are punished in some way. We have a disease, we have a
weakness, or we die, or something happens to us, if we violate the laws
pertaining to our body.
The same thing
happens when we violate the laws pertaining to our mind, but we never recognize
this. We are now violating this Law of Evolution, which the prophets have called
the Path, very seriously. The alternatives are either mankind will degenerate,
or its mind will become disoriented, as is actually happening at the moment, or
it will have to revert to a lifestyle and a social system which is more in
harmony with this Path.
You say in The Shape
of Events to Come that it is most likely we will have a nuclear war, and you
also say that we must try to avoid it no matter what the cost. My question is
this: Are we ruled by predestination or by free will?
We are ruled by both
predestination and also by free will.
predestination in this case, you feel that it will escalate to some kind of a
confrontation between different ideologies? It seems as if you are saying that
this is a growing process that man is going through; that we have been going
through history continually plagued by wars.
The indications are that
there will be a nuclear war. But it could be averted if mankind were to obey the
law which it is violating at present.
What law are we
To repeat, it is the Law
of Evolution, the Path referred to in every great faith of mankind, the Path of
Christ, the Path of Mohammed, the Path of Buddha, the Path described in the
Bhagavad Gita. As I have said, the Path described in every great scripture of
But if it has been
described in all the leading religions, why is man so foolish as to disobey
those findings, and why are we not following the prescribed path?
There is a very valid
reason for it. The scientists of the 18th century, and even before, expressed
views which are mostly skeptical. They denied the existence of God, immortality
of the soul and the hereafter. The result is that at the present moment the
intelligent mind is wavering between the precepts of religion and the concepts
This has been a
great tragedy. In fact, it is this premature expression of skeptical views that
led Karl Marx to formulate his entirely materialistic theories. These premature
views have divided mankind into two blocs; one of them who believe in God and
the other who deny God.
When you say the two
blocs, are you referring to the Communistic bloc, which denies religious
freedom, and the Western Capitalistic bloc?
Yes. It has been a real
tragedy that Western scientists never studied other religions, such as the
Indian religion or the ancient tradition of Egypt. They only concentrated their
attention on Christianity. Even after concentrating their attention on that one
particular religion, and pointing out certain anomalies, they still could have
studied the phenomena in an objective way instead of rejecting the whole finding
of religion altogether.
If they had done it,
if they had studied the occult literature of the world just as they studied
alchemy and astrology, and the ancient sciences of medicine and the like, and
then out of the amorphous mass crystallized certain laws and facts, then they
would have come to the conclusion that there is a law to which all these
prophets were referring. And that is a spiritual law which relates to the
evolution of the human mind, and also to the emancipation of the human soul and
its rising to higher dimensions of existence.
You speak with such
assurance. Having read a number of your books, I know that you have had a great
personal enlightenment. Thanks to this enlightenment, your illumination as you
also call it, you are in a position where you can indeed look into the future
and discern events to come. Could you tell me when this happened, and what kind
of experience it was?
I had an incredible
experience in my 34th year. And from that experience started a process of
transformation in my body which continues to this day. This transformation led
me to a state of consciousness which I had never experienced before. It is a
strange experience. In the normal human being, one's personality is a small
flame of consciousness or awareness. And seen from that small flame, the world
appears to be a gigantic expanse of stars, planets, oceans, mountains, deserts
and plains. But when this transformation of consciousness occurs, the whole
picture is reversed. It is now the consciousness which becomes an ocean. It is
now the consciousness which surpasses these suns, planets, mountains, oceans,
plains and deserts. It is now consciousness that becomes the fundamental reality
of the universe. And all that we see now, with our sensory equipment, is like an
image projected on it.
Consciousness now appears
to be the basic reality, to be the universe in fact. And what we see, the
material manifestations of the universe, are but projections of this very
consciousness. We can say they are like shadows, phantoms, like a mirage
floating on it.
that developed in you at the age of 34 became a super-consciousness, a thing
which happens very seldom to people. Perhaps in our times it has happened to
only a few people. Is there any way that this can be triggered in others by some
sort of activity?
I believe so. I believe
that this transformation is not a haphazard affair. We have in us a mechanism
implanted in the human system by nature. This mechanism rules the cerebrospinal
system in our bodies. Once it is aroused to activity, the cerebrospinal system
works in a certain predetermined direction. A new form of energy flows in the
body, and a new form of consciousness develops in the brain.
For instance, in my
case, I always dwell in a world of light. There is light in my interior, there
is light on the exterior for me, also. Everything I see is bathed in a luster.
Whenever I turn my attention inward and close my eyes, I am bathed in light. In
dreams also I am always walking, running and moving in ethereal spaces filled
with luster. I now live in the same world which has been experienced by mystics
of all ages and climes, a world of light, of unutterable happiness and of
intellectual illumination. It is in this state of consciousness that I get these
hints and visions and directions, precognitions and awareness of future events,
to tell me that this is the path chalked out for mankind, and that she has
digressed from this path, with the result that her evolution and very existence
You say that
different people have different receptivity in these matters, or intelligent
energies that are in the cosmic universe, that we are indeed like receivers, and
that some individuals are more able to receive them than others. We know from
the various religions that anything having to do with creation stems from
thought. And if there is a universal creative thought, we see the manifestations
in plants, trees, and in the acts that man performs.
What you are
also saying is that this is such an enormous, powerful instrument, this new
consciousness in yourself, but that we have failed to use it properly in recent
centuries due to the fact that mankind has been too actively involved in the
pursuit of scientific knowledge. We have therefore forgotten the knowledge as to
how to communicate with cosmic intelligence. Is that correct?
You are very right. Some
minds are more responsive and more receptive to this cosmic reservoir of
intelligence than others, for instance, geniuses. It is well known, and it is
admitted by geniuses themselves that they receive whole chapters, whole books,
whole ideas, whole poems, just as if somebody else is feeding them with the
So when a genius
works, it is not something that his mind does by itself but the ideas or
thoughts come to him, that he is the instrument of the creative process?
Certainly, when it comes
to the original things. Now, it is not that the genius does not make any effort.
The effort is made, but his brain is so constituted that it has easier access to
this reservoir of eternal knowledge than others do. Similarly, we have the
psychics, prophets, clairvoyants, prodigies, great artists and the great
musicians. They all receive new ideas, new flashes, new music, and new art from
this intelligent source, which is behind the human mind. We are making a grave
mistake in supposing that consciousness or the mind is the product of our brain.
That is what is at the root of the present disaster. Consciousness or mind is an
energy by itself. It is an independently existing universe. It is a
self-sustaining ocean from which a drop filters into our mind. Our mind, our
neurons, our nervous system, is but a computer. They are just the parts of a
computer worked by this energy. The moment we come to realize this fact we can
begin to make experiments to prove it. That is what I mean when I say that we
must have experimental centers where we can do research on the evolutionary
mechanism that is implanted in every human being. In the ancient India
scriptures, this mechanism is often referred to as Kundalini.
Now you've brought
in a new word.
Well, Kundalini, in the
Indian tradition, means a reservoir of psychic power in the human body which can
be aroused to activity by certain mental or spiritual disciplines, as for
instance, Yoga. Kundalini is said to be the basis for illumination, genius,
miraculous power, and for all extraordinary faculties and possibilities latent
in the human mind.
I assume that
Kundalini is a very old doctrine, not something that has surfaced just at this
It is as old as
pre-dynastic Egypt. That means it was known more than 5,000 years before the
birth of Christ.
And you say it has
been recorded in the ancient scriptures?
Hundreds and thousands of
books mention it. It is recorded in Chinese books, the Egyptian hieroglyphics,
in the Indian Tantras and Shakti Shastras. There are thousands of books on
Kundalini in India, dating from prehistoric times.
And it is a
biological force in all human beings? Is that what you are referring to in your
book, The Biological Basis of Religion and Genius?
unfortunately, science has no awareness of this Power Center, which is in fact
the evolutionary mechanism. Some scientists believe that evolution has occurred
through random mutations, which is disputed very hotly by others. But the fact
is that there is a biological mechanism in every human being, and this mechanism
is known as Kundalini. It can be accelerated through the discipline of Yoga or
through other religious exercises. And when it is accelerated, one can, in one
life, attain to the same state of expanded consciousness as would otherwise be
attained in many incarnations.
This is what you did
as a young man; you were actively pursuing this and you awakened this
It aroused not only
because of my efforts but first, probably, because my nervous system and brain
were mature for this awakening. I had it through heredity in my own system.
Wouldn't this be of
great importance if we could have decision-makers and world leaders become
exposed to this subject, this doctrine, so that they could understand more about
how the mind operates and how everything fits together?
It is of the utmost
importance. If we study Plato deeply, especially his Republic, he is referring
to this type of man as the philosopher who should be the highest ruler in the
state. It is this type of man who is discussed in the Upanishads, the man who is
illuminated, who has risen above normal temptations. He alone should be
entrusted with the responsibilities of rulership.
And if this could be
done, then maybe we would achieve peace, harmony and happiness in the world.
It has to be done. It is
not only a question that it could be done. We have now gained control over the
most terrible power in the universe, the power of the atom. Unless mankind has
sober, patient, selfless human beings at the top in every sphere of activity and
thought, to control and moderate the passions and ambitions in others, there is
no possibility of human survival in the next fifty or hundred years.
Isn't it strange
that mankind has been ignoring, or unaware of this profound knowledge instead of
using it to great advantage and benefit? Why are we not using it?
Mr. Nobel, it is a matter
of great pain for me. For the past thousands of years, in Grecian times, among
the Romans, Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, everywhere, the greatest thinkers have
been believers in the Power ruling the universe. They have written profound
systems of philosophy, especially in India. They are the most profound systems
even today. But all of a sudden scientists appeared in the 18th and 19th
centuries, saying that this whole mass of knowledge was a myth and superstition,
and they made those assertions without ever experimenting on it.
So what do we need
to do now, today, in order to correct this mistake or reverse the trend?
As you say, we have to
reverse the trend. We have to make a thorough study of the religious scriptures
of the world.
On a scientific
Yes, on a scientific
level. We have to see the points of resemblance. We have to see where they refer
to the occult disciplines. We have to see what is the state of illumination,
what has been the experience of the great mystics. We have to gather all this
data, and then we have to make experiments on volunteer subjects for the arousal
of this power in them. I am as sure as that the sun is shining before me that
this will be proved and established within the next twenty years, provided we
were to make the right efforts for this purpose.
Gopi Krishna, how do
you distinguish between the false prophet, which we know existed even in
Biblical times and continues to exist today, and the genuine prophet?
The genuine prophet does
not normally run after disciples; is not ostentatious. He is spontaneous. He is
humble. He is compassionate, and he has certain faculties, certain visions of,
if I may say, a newly developed inner eye by which he can discern things and
solve problems which it is not possible for a normal man to do.
The first sign of an
illuminated personality is that there is a spontaneous flow of wisdom. This is
known as vaikhari in India. That wisdom generally deals with the spiritual side
of man. It must be original. It must be correct. And it must be born within
himself without the aid of external reading or other things. You will find that
in the case of all great mystics whatever has been given out has usually been in
verse or in a very beautiful form of prose. The illuminated mind has its own
language, its own expression. The illuminated mind will never exaggerate, it
will only give out the truth.
There are many ways
by which we can distinguish a true prophet from a false one. In India one of the
methods was that only those who could write original commentaries on what is
known as parasthan atray, that is, the Upanishads, the Yoga Sutras and the
Bhagavad Gita, should be acclaimed as those having attained to higher
consciousness. It is not an easy task to write an original commentary on either
the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads, because one who does so must have attained
to the same realms of consciousness as described in those books.
We have had
illuminated human beings in India who were wonders from the age of 8 or 10, Guru
Nanak, Jnaneshwar and Shankaracharya. Shankaracharya passed away at the age of
31 after leaving a prodigious amount of philosophical and religious thought.
Jnaneswar, who passed away at the age of 22, wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad
Gita at the age of 16. It is a masterpiece and perhaps unparalleled in recent
literature on the subject. Guru Nanak, the founder of the Sikhs, was a spiritual
prodigy from the age of 8.
It is not difficult to
distinguish a spiritual prodigy or a spiritual genius, just as it is not
difficult to distinguish a secular genius in other branches of knowledge. But
with the investigation that I have in mind, it may become possible to find
physiological evidence also, evidence in the blood, the cerebrospinal system, in
the brain, even in the organs, the tissues, that show differences between an
illuminated human being and an average person.
evaluation, is it something that has been done before or would it be something
It will be entirely new. I
believe that science is now in a position to be able to notice the differences
and also the effect of the transformative processes that occur in the body on
the arousal of this evolutionary power.
surprises me is that you write such beautiful verse, or lyrics, in English when
it is not your native language. Is that by inspiration, something that just
Yes, it just comes. What I
am trying to express needs a deep study, because it is a very a profound
subject. I must tell you, Mr. Nobel, without arrogating any importance to
myself, in a humble way, just as a statement of fact, that I am a living witness
to the truth of religion. I am a specimen of the class which has been known as
mystics. I am a living model of transformed consciousness, a testimony to the
correctness of the esoteric doctrines of the world, embodying in myself what has
been said by the great religious teachers of the past, of whom recent examples
in India have been Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi . It is a rare class. We can
at once distinguish the genuine from the false. It is a matter of great pain for
me to see the skeptical attitude of modern scientists about a phenomenon that
has been the most important in history in changing the direction of human
Mohammed, Socrates, Zoroaster, Guru Nanak, all of these great leaders, who
brought out radical changes in the thinking of mankind, belonged to this class.
So it is not difficult to distinguish a genuine prophet, mystic or enlightened
being from the false. But still there can also be psychological, intellectual
and physiological tests by which this distinction can be easily made.
Earlier in our
conversation you said that this wonderful gift that you are endowed with is
something that can come to every person in lesser or greater degree if they are
properly trained and motivated. Today we are annually spending some $450 billion
on armaments, and I can well remember The Manhattan Project, which produced the
first atom bomb, and at a tremendously high price.
If we could just
invest a small amount of these funds, which are meant for death, towards
research for life, towards spirituality and enlightenment, and to develop
super-consciousness, wouldn't it be of great benefit to all of mankind? The
research could proceed hand-in-hand with science.
The very fact that we are
spending $450 billion on armaments and armies, that is on machines meant for
destruction, is clear evidence for what I am saying, that the human mind has
deviated from the right path. Millions are dying of starvation, millions become
blind because they do not have the necessary vitamins, millions live on only one
meal a day, and millions lack medicines, lack education, and live without
shelter. Do you think that a sane species or a sane nation or a sane community
should spend billions on weapons of mass destruction, or on sending rockets into
space, when humanity needs every penny of these funds to survive?
Frankly, I cannot
understand it, either.
That, my friend, is the
reason why a devastating war is coming. We have lost faith in Heaven. We have
lost the idea that every moment we are watched by the eyes of God.
Again, I must ask,
how have we gone wrong?
We have gone wrong by
believing that religion is but an individual concern, that religion is a hobby
of the individual and that it has no place in government administration, or
politics, science, in our projects, or in our planning for mankind.
But it used to be in
America and Japan and Europe, that the state and religion worked together and
misused their powers. That's why politics and religion were separated.
That is true. But we have
to understand that at no time was proper study or research directed on religion.
The religious leaders were given a free hand, and naturally they slowly became
too fond of temporal power, even ecclesiastical power and the easements that
were provided for that, rather than following in the footsteps of the founders
of the faith.
This is also what
has happened to science. Scientists have become dogmatic, and now they also have
their vested interests. That love for science and scientific discoveries, that
selfless service, is very rare today. So religion, since it became dogmatic and
obsessive, needed a purging; it needed a cleansing process, just as science
needs today, as every human institution needs after a time.
Even the Indian
institutions needed it in their own time before they degenerated. But that was
never done. On the other hand, it was just pushed aside, and our entire economy,
or political and social systems, were just considered on a secular basis, on a
basis where religion has no say. It was just treated as an individual concern.
But religion is dealing with universal laws.
In a few words, science
deals with material laws, religion deals with the laws of the spirit. We have
become one-sided. We have gone too far into the material side and too far away
from the spiritual side. The result is that there is a lopsided development of
our intellect. It has become a dry intellect, without the sobering and
harmonizing influence of religion.
Do you think that
our religions will accept this idea? Will they allow science to work hand in
hand with religion to carry out the kind of evolutionary or spiritual research
you are calling for?
There is no question of
their not accepting, or not believing in, what I say. They should not accept a
single word of what I am writing as truth but leave it open to experimentation.
Just make the experiments on the evolutionary mechanism, Kundalini, which is a
historical fact. It is a hidden doctrine mentioned in all the esoteric systems
of the past. I say they should make experiments on it in a certain way. If they
succeed, if they find that I am right, then give the widest possible publicity
What I have said in my
writings is that no great illuminated sage had a conversation with God or
communion with God. He reached only a higher dimension of consciousness. Man is
destined for that same higher dimension of consciousness. There is a special
psychosomatic mechanism in his body which Nature has provided for him to
accelerate and rise higher and higher into this higher dimension. The prophets,
illuminated sages, geniuses, the inspired poets, and the people with miraculous
or psychic gifts, have all been the products of this psychosomatic mechanism,
which is slowly transforming the human brain.
I say that we can achieve
this transformation in one life. When these things are proved, then all the
hidden secrets of religion will stand revealed, why Christ was inspired, why
Mohammed was inspired, why Guru Nanak was inspired, why they had miraculous
powers. And such eloquence that they could fascinate and convert everyone who
came into their influence or their orbit. It is because of this power center.
Once you establish it, at once there will be harmony in all the religions,
because the Divine Source of revelation will then be known.
In our day and age,
science and technology have become our God. Having science verify the truths of
religion, therefore, seems like a valid goal.
Please understand me
clearly, Mr. Nobel. I would repeat this with my last breath. The source of
revelation, inspiration, genius, psychic powers lies in us. This source can
become active with certain disciplines. Normally it is dormant and idle. We
don't use it, but with certain experiments, this source, this fountainhead of
all spiritual knowledge and powers, can become active. And it did become active
in all the great prophets, sages and geniuses of the past.
The research that I
am asking for will place in the hands of science the secret of genius, the
secret of that Source from which science was born, from which philosophy,
literature, genius, music, from which all was born. The research will put
science in touch with the Source of all creativity, all nobility, and all the
psychic powers in man.
That's a profound
As I said, I would be
happy to make it even in my last breath. The human race is evolving in a certain
predetermined direction, under a certain law, which of course, it would need a
long span of time to understand thoroughly. Now if this evolution continues in a
healthy way, we progress. If this evolution does not continue in a healthy way
we stagnate, degenerate and deteriorate.
There is also
another danger. If this evolution does not occur in a healthy way, then it can
occur in a morbid or malignant way. That is the reason why, in this advanced
age, with all the facilities and amenities that we have, the number of mentally
distorted, or the insane, is so alarming, especially in the Western countries.
There is no reason
why a nation that has everything that it needs, plenty and abundance of
everything, food, provisions, shelter, sanitation, everything. Why then should
there be such a large incidence of insanity? The reason is because the brain's
accelerated evolution is going the wrong way.
Dear Mr. Nobel, all
this will be confirmed by the progeny, that our most intelligent minds have
started to lose touch with reality. They have started to become alienated.
Otherwise, no sane human being who is intelligent, well educated, has knowledge
of all the branches to which man has gained access to this day, who has books,
newspapers, television and the radio to give him news about the world, should
devise a weapon like the nuclear missile, a weapon that puts the whole species
in danger of annihilation.
It is insanity. We
are not able to see it at this point but we will see it after 20 or 25 years. It
is craziness, because the human intellect has started to deteriorate. The
Romans, Greeks, Indians, Mughuls all fell because their leading intellects
deteriorated. The same is happening to the Western nations. The mind is losing
contact with reality.
Do you today see any
similarity between the fall of the Roman empire and the possible fall of our
Western capitalistic system?
The same reason. You
can see a striking resemblance between the ways of life of the last Romans and
Western society of our day. The same overemphasis on carnal pleasures. The same
dissension among themselves. The same appetite for abnormal things. You will
find parallels between the two, the same breakup of families, the same lowering
of moral and ethical values.
I want to come back
again to the mind, because it fascinates me very much. We know a lot about the
health and diseases of the body, and we cure them. In America there is the great
body cult. We exercise, jog, play tennis and golf for hours. Our physical
stamina is excellent, but we give little time to the development of our mind.
There is an imbalance.
It is a great imbalance.
Even if we were to exercise for hours every day, for the betterment of our body,
and at the same time neglect the culture of the mind, we would gain nothing by
all the labor. For the pilot, the driver in us,the power that is behind all our
thinking and action, would act in the wrong way. And the body will be misused
when the driver is not healthy and wholesome.
Now I will give you
one more instance to show how the mind works. Please try to frame a picture of
New York, London, or Zurich, and see the cars, trucks and buses whirling around
and around. See the people rushing across roads, burning enormous quantities of
Why this haste? Is the
earth turning upside down? Is some other species threatening mankind from a
distant planet? Is there a plague? What is happening? Why is everybody running
and rushing and working, without giving any time to allow the mind to be in
repose and in peace, in tune with itself? What is happening in all the cities,
especially in the industrial countries, and now in the developing countries
also? Speed, speed, and work and work. For what?
I agree, people rush
about without smiles on their faces.
You will find laborers and
farmers smiling and laughing in their fields and workplaces. But you don't find
people laughing or smiling in the large cities of the world. They are working
and rushing this way and that. Now let us carry this analogy a little further.
Let us take a growing infant, tie him with a rope and whirl him around the head.
Or put him in a small chair which is whirling for the whole day, so that he has
no time to look at anything in a patient way, in a steady way. He is always
whirling. Do you think such a child will grow into a normal adult?
Then how can you imagine
that all these crowds, from morning till night, who are burning this energy,
burning their own energy in such a rush and tumble, with a craze for speed, with
a mania for more and more, with an abnormal desire for pleasure, for excitement
and adventure, how can you say that this mind will grow into healthy adulthood
or into a healthy humanity?
This is the reason
why a nuclear war is threatening mankind. To end all of this insanity, this riot
of the intellect, of speed and creativity. See how calm and reposeful Nature is
and how restless is man. And not only man but intelligent man, because he has no
idea that a glorious future awaits him. He doesn't know that he has to evolve in
a certain direction, that he has to reach a dimension where he will combine the
scientist, the sage and the illuminated in himself. He has no idea that he is
destined to live a life of happiness, peace and glory on the earth.
For him, the ideal is this
whirling around, going in a jet plane, rushing from Bombay to London, from
London to New York; and then when he gets there, rushing in a car, this way and
that, spreading smoke and pollution everywhere.
The people who are
doing it are acting with the best of intentions. I myself do it by rushing to
meetings here and there.
I agree with you
that they are well-meaning. They are merely following the current way. But this
way is built on ignorance of the spiritual law and the evolution of the human
brain and mind. So they are not to be blamed. It is the system that is to be
blamed. And the system is based on ignorance. That is why my voice is lonely.
But it will be confirmed
that man has not to live only for his body but for his soul also. And the soul
needs self-reflection, repose, meditation, calmness, nobility, and those
characteristics, those traits, which were once common among the spiritual
teachers of the earth. So every one of us must also give some time for the
culture of our mind. And that means retirement to secluded locations, prayer,
worship, creative occupations, music, and just sitting in beautiful places, or
among things which have an aesthetic value, which fascinate the mind, which make
it grow, which make it expand beyond the narrow limits which are forced on it by
our material existence.
It is very hard to
tell another nation that we have gone in the wrong direction and that it should
not follow our lead. We all have to learn by our own mistakes. How can we tell
developing countries that to develop their societies and economies as Europe and
America have is not the right way?
In the first place, one of
the consequences of this type of life has been the two great world wars.
Secondly, if there were real peace and happiness in this type of life, this
hectic race after material possessions, then why should millions of people take
to drugs, to meditation, to living simple lives, to building communities where
they are away from this rush and bustle? Out of the remaining millions, or out
of the whole, why should maybe ten percent go crazy?
When we calculate the
crazy, the dropouts, the drug addicts, those who meditate, those who leave for
secluded places, if we count them all together, we will find that only a small
fraction is left that is happy with this type of life. The rest are not happy at
all. We should take a lesson from this.
Add to what you have
said the possibility that we may run out of energy, and we have another serious
problem. But even if we had more energy available today, would it really be good
Why should we, all of a
sudden, take it into our heads that everyone of us is permitted to spend as much
energy as would suffice for perhaps a hundred other people? The fact is, Mr.
Nobel, that we are not planning; we are not doing anything by plan that keeps in
view our evolution, the resources of the earth, the needs that we have and the
economy of nature. We are doing everything haphazardly. Nations are doing it out
of rivalry and competition. There is nothing like a planned economy anywhere on
During the last
hundred years we have consumed so much energy and so much of the resources of
the planet that, if frugally employed, could have lasted perhaps a thousand
years. If we were to continue the same extravagance and extend it to the
developing countries, to all the four billion people, there will be nothing left
in the next fifty years. So all this is just haphazard thinking and wrong
planning, without any idea about survival.
We have to live a frugal
life, just as nature is frugal, parsimonious. A frugal life is good for our
health, both inner and outer. Any new source of energy, even if discovered or
developed, would not solve our problems. It would just add to them.
population trend indicates that around the year 2000 we will have a world
population of some six or seven billion. If our problems are difficult to solve
today, we can only imagine how they will be with that many people.
In calculating the needs
of the population, we do not take into consideration that the human brain is
evolving and that each individual needs more than we assign to her or him.
Therefore, if the earth can sustain a population of, say, four billion people,
then when the factor of evolution is added, it would only be able to sustain
three billion or even two billion. Each individual should have something more
for his evolutionary processes than what would otherwise be needed in the normal
way. This is not understood anywhere.
We should have a
population for which we have sufficient out of all that is produced by the
earth. This can only be possible when the needs of the population and the
planning done for it are on a global basis. What would be needed are men and
women who are cultivated, trained, and who have reached to other dimensions of
consciousness, in charge of important offices. That is the only way to safety.
Otherwise, under stress, a normal mind will give way in the present complex
societies of the world.
Thank you very much.